An Afternoon with Aunt Loretta (Proctor)- Roswell, 1947

Kay, the wife side of the couple owning the cabin where I live, is part of the family owning the property adjoining the ranch where the Roswell Incident happened in 1947.  Her Aunt Loretta was the step-mother of Dee Proctor, the youngster with Mac Brazel when he discovered the debris on his land.

Loretta was there when Brazel brought Dee home that day carrying pieces of what they’d found.  She sat at the table with the rest of the family considering while Mac Brazel tried to make sense of it, tried to decide what he should do.

“The piece he [Mac Brazel] brought looked like a kind of tan, light brown plastic. It was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn’t a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just a little larger than a pencil. We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn’t burn. We knew it wasn’t wood. It was smooth like plastic.”

“According to Brazel’s neighbor Loretta Proctor, her 7-year old son Timothy or “Dee” was with Brazel when he first discovered the debris field. But he was also with Brazel when he discovered something else at another site 2-1/2 miles to the east that left him deeply traumatized for the rest of his life.”  This is frequently quoted from numerous locations on the web and in books about Roswell, but it provides a good summation or paraphrase of what Loretta had to say about that part of her experience during our visit recently.

Dee [the accounts continue] never told her exactly what he saw there but did take her to the location in 1994 saying, “Here is where Mack found something else.” Dee Proctor would also duck all attempts at interview and died in 2006.

However, Dee never ducked any conversations with Aunt Loretta, nor with his step-sister regarding the incident, though he was reticent to a degree according to the two women.

The popular accounts continue:  “However, other rancher children are believed to have visited the site, including Sydney “Jack” Wright, who said that two sons of rancher Thomas Edington and one of rancher Truman Pierce’s daughters got to “the other location.” Wright in 1998 would state, “There were bodies, small bodies with big heads and eyes. And Mack was there too. We couldn’t get away from there fast enough.”

—————

A while back Gale, Kay and I went up to Comanche to visit her Aunt Loretta for an afternoon.  I’d recently read Thomas J. Carey and Donald R. Schmitt’s book, Witness to Roswell.  Even though I ‘d thought before reading it the subject had beaten to death several decades ago, the book renewed my interest, so I was enthusiastic about meeting Aunt Loretta and discussing it with her, so I carried a recorder with me.

Loretta lives with her daughter now, raising goats, dancing one night a week, sharp of mind, intelligent and quick of wit.  At 95, she’s a woman with a lot still to say, but careful about how she says it.

I was prepared by recent readings mentioned above, ready with questions, as were Gale and Kay, who’d also done the reading of Witness to Roswell.  We sat for several hours, asked, and she and her daughter answered, sometimes drifting into nuance, squinting with loaded, pointed implication.

As we drove back Gale, Kay and I talked a lot about what Loretta and her daughter told us that afternoon.  It all boiled down to what she’d personally observed, remembrances of Dee when he and Mac arrived at their ranch, asides about Dee, afterward, almost certainly still in possession of the ‘memory metal’ after it was supposed to have been all turned over to the Army.  “A certain little brat kept it hidden away his whole life!” Loretta declared with a measure of smiling venom.

According to Aunt Loretta, Mac was in a quandry over what to do about the mess on his ranch.  He’d heard somewhere the Army would pay a reward for anyone who found a ‘flying saucer’, but he had a lot of qualms about whether to get involved with the government.  Like a lot of people of that time and that area, Mac didn’t have a lot of trust in them.  A huge tract of land not far away had been confiscated from the families owning it just a few years earlier to create White Sands Proving Grounds, and the Trinity Site of the first atomic bomb detonation was just down the road and only a couple of years in the past.

There, in Loretta’s kitchen, Mac decided to go visit his wife and kids in Las Cruces for the next few days to think it over.  It wasn’t until his return from Cruces he went to Roswell and reported what he’d found.  Because of that delay of a week a lot of people in the Corona area knew about it a considerable while before the government did.

She’d provided a vivid description of the site, almost without seeming to realize she was doing it.  The way the ridge was scoured of any plant life, the ‘remembrance’ of the ‘impact’ zone as she gazed at the wall telling about it.  I came away believing Loretta probably visited the site herself, sometime shortly after the event.

But of all the questions we asked Loretta that afternoon the one thing that didn’t happen was any hint of denial of anything related to her, Dee, the events of those days as described in “Witness to Roswell”.

Whatever happened back there in 1947, there’s not much room to doubt that Loretta’s interpretation of it all doesn’t agree at all with government accounts and seems to agree in all ways where her personal experience and observations come into the events, with just about everything the ‘other side’ has been saying all along.

http://www.alienresistance.org/roswellufocrashsitephotos.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_accounts_of_the_Roswell_UFO_incident

Witness accounts of the Roswell UFO incident:
http://roswellinvestigator.com/witness-to-roswell-1.php

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/anna_jones1/daily_record02.html

Old Jules

The Byrds–Mr. Spaceman

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29 responses to “An Afternoon with Aunt Loretta (Proctor)- Roswell, 1947

  1. Roswell always fascinated me , thanks for the links. But let me get it straight.. Did YOU actually go and visit with Aunt Loretta recently?

    • Hi Ben: Thanks for the visit. Yeah, Gale, Kay and I went up there a few months ago and spent the afternoon with her and her daughter. Interesting visit and she let me record it all.
      She’s about 95 now, still goes dancing once a week. Quite a woman.

      We took a lot of pictures while we were up there, but neither Gale, nor I have been able to locate what we took. He’s been searching through CDs without success because up there they’re ‘family pictures’ for Kay. I don’t know what became of the ones I took. I lost my camera sometime back there and they might have been stored on it.

      Gracias, J

  2. weird stuff…! and interesting.!

    thanks..
    Bigfoot

    • Morning Bill M. When I learned a few years ago that Kay was a part of that family it struck me as fairly weird. Always hoped I’d have a chance to meet her. Thanks for coming by. Gracias, J

  3. The plot thickens….

    I want to hear what’s in the Secret Tapes…

    • Hi Teresa Evangeline: I’ve got 32 spools of microfilm from the US Archives of US Army correspondence 1856-1869 in the New Mexico Arizona Department. No microfilm reader available in these parts, so I suppose I could part with them. I was never able to tell whether any of it was secret, but you might find something there to suit your needs. Thanks for the visit and read. Gracias, J

  4. “O Grandmother! What big eyes you have!”

    Who needs badass aliens when we’ve got each other?

    Bob

  5. When there’s grass needs mowing, heavy lifting, painful, dirty work doing something that can’t be done in another country we need them, Bob.

  6. Did you ask Loretta where Dee might have kept that little piece “hidden away” for all those years?

  7. interesting story as Dee was William Dee Proctor, his son was Timothy Dee and Aunt Loretta was his Mother and Veda was his sister, no step situation involved in it. also Loretta had no nieces, or great nieces named Kay. Dee had no piece of anything.

    • Anonymous: Particularly interesting because people who clearly don’t know anything at all about the family show up unidentified and insert comments of this sort into whatever dialogues are going on. Jules

      • Jules-just to say, Anonymous has the facts, word for word. Kay is the niece of Ellis Hodge, Mama’s (or as you know her, “Aunt Loretta”) second husband. This is being written by Veda, the daughter that Loretta lives with to this day. I was the one you talked with when you came up with Kay and Gale. Dee was Mama’s third son, not a step son. Timothy is Dee’s son. Don’t know where that all came from. We don’t even call him Timothy. And I don’t think anything ever traumatized Dee. He would never talk about it much, because to a 7 year old, “it was just a bunch of junk”. It really did not impress him at all. He never saw the second sight at all. He never had any piece of it that he kept hidden away, there was one person, deceased many years ago, that she suspected would have some of it, if anyone did. Dee never ducked an interview, he would tell anyone who asked the same thing that he told us. “To a 7 year old, it was just a bunch of junk”. Our family has only been in the area for 95 years, so we pretty much knew who every one was even remotely close. Never heard of Wright, never had a neighbor named Thomas Edington, and Truman Spencer lived over 30 miles away. Travel in those days was difficult, to say the least, so not sure how his daughter managed to get to the site. Mama would have never referred to Dee as a spoiled brat. Until the military came out, the only way anyone got to the site was horseback. So there was not a lot of people knew about it. This article has people from all over the world hunting “hidden relics” that do not exist. That makes me slightly uncomfortable. Anyone who wants to hear what Mama had to say should stick with the basic interview that was posted and can be found by anyone doing a search on Loretta Proctor on their computer. That one has had nothing added, and nothing taken from it. Thank you. And again, I am not anonymous, I am VEDA.

  8. It dawned on me that Kay is a niece to Lorettas second husband but I stand firm on the names and step situation, And No Metal Was Kept. Also Trumans grandsons were born over 20 years after the crash, Mac Brazels family lived in Tularosa not Las Cruces.

  9. sorry to bother you again but I misunderstood the relationship to Truman. His daughter if she was even born at that time would have had to ride horseback over 30 miles as the crow flies to get to the crash site. I noticed on Vedas response she put the last name SPENCER. That family ranched between WHITE OAks and Carrizozo and the family you referred to ranched close to hiway 285 at least 30 miles from the crash site. I know about the PROCTOR family and that part of the world as I am from that part of the world. There were some EDINGTONS with connections to that area but coming from a family that lived there for years no one knew a THOMAS.

  10. Thanks, Anonymous, for the clarification on the man with the first name of Truman. I immediately think of the ones near Carrizozo, MY MISTAKE!!! Anyone out there, PLEASE do NOT start contacting this family, as trying to get fact from fiction is tough enough, when people, (me included) do not proof read, and inadvertently call a wrong name, much less try to locate something that is not there, in the first place!! Again, you are absolutely, and totally correct in this reply you have made. VEDA

  11. Veda-
    Did you or Loretta ever live or visit Kings Point, NC or the surrounding areas? Does the name Buddy Cobb mean anything to you? Perhaps strange questions for you, perhaps not. Thanks! Tony

  12. Tony. Mama said she went to PA once, and may have gone through NC then. If she did, it was just driving through. I have never been there. And neither of us have any recollection of a person named Buddy Cobb. Any further information may clarify it. If someone had asked me if I knew Jules, I would not have remembered his name either. But now, needless to say, I won’t be forgetting it…..

    • Veda: I posted your remarks and the exchange between you and anonymous, along with an apology for my shortcomings as a reporter as one of the posts for today. Should you miss it, or not find it, I apologize again here. No harm intended, none anticipated when I made the post originally, no intention to mislead anyone. If I had it to do again I’d simply not have made the original post at all. At the time I was fascinated and charmed by Loretta and hoped to communicate what I percieved as a unique lady. What else can I say. J

  13. Veda, meant to say “Kings Mountain” – Buddy says that he knows you (he is 72) and has an interesting tale to tell…

  14. Veda-

    Thanks for the prompt reply. I guess that Mr. Cobb was somehow mistaken.
    However, I do have a few additional questions:

    1) What do you know about Vern Brazel? Mac’s son who was Dee’s age at the time of the crash. Vern killed himself. Was Vern with Dee at the site? Loretta knows of Vern. He left the area young and changed his name to Tunnihill or something similar.

    2) Melvin Sultemeirer knew Dee well. He says that Dee saw something- but that Dee never wanted to talk about it. Why?

    3) Dee was 7 when he made the find with Mac. What 7 year old boy would not be curious enough to take a piece of the mystery metal?

    4) If your Mother thought that the metal was noteworthy and memorable- and so did Mac- why didn’t Dee?

    5) You admit Jules did come to visit you and Loretta with Kay. But you say that Loretta did not mention Dee and the metal. But Jules said he recorded all of this? How do you reconcile the different stories of the same event?

    6) You mention that your Mother believed that someone else did take some of the metal. Now that he or she is deceased, can you tell me who that is? I can give you a private email.

    You must realize that it is hard to fathom that none of the kids at the time took any of the material before the military got there. It is what kids would do….And I have heard Dan Richards (dead) did take some and put it in the “Bat Cave” – have you heard this?

    Veda, your mother likely knows more than she has told. She did not tell researchers, for instance, that Dee was at the site with Mac. Only when Bill Brazel Jr. let it slip that Dee was there that Loretta, in a later interview when confronted with this information, admitted that Dee was in fact there. Why? Do you believe she knows more? Does she understand the importance to truth and to history to tell all and to release any extant debris/metal for analysis?Thanks much!
    Tony

  15. Good idea, Jules. However it won’t happen. If this is who I think it is, he is writing fairy tales…. And again, like I posted on your page you wrote today, thank you!! for allowing us to straighten this out, as much as we could! You really don’t have to publish this, unless you want to. It would not serve any purpose.

  16. Seems like we visit a lot of the same places. Wrote about this a while back also, but didn’t have the personal interview…thank goodness! Guess I’m part of the ‘other side’ definitely not the government..

    • Hi Bev. So I gather you’ve been to Comanche? Or the place where Loretta and her daughter live? Gracias, J

      • Have visited in Comanche, TX as lived on the other side of Dallas for a couple years at Lake Tawakoni. But was actually referring to time spent in Roswell itself, which is the place I wrote about on my blog. Have spent a lot of time in Roswell’s UFO library reading the stories of the UFO experiences.

        • Hi Bev: My biological father lived up near Towakoni back when we still communicated, might still live there if he’s alive. Had a farmish place outside Lone Oak. You and I have taken some parallel paths, it seems. Gracias, J

  17. Hi Jules, I met Loretta in July of 2006 when she lived in the Hodge ranch outside Corona about 8 miles. I cant believe the BS a lot of people tell about the whole incident, To me it just proves that they have never traveled to the site or observed the fact that it hasent changed that much since then. We did not leave the main dirt road for fear of getting a flat and being stuck 15 miles from the nearest phone.
    I hope Loretta is still in good shape, I wish her and her family Happeness on her upcomming 100th birthday
    Sincerely
    Wayne Prather

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