Hi blogsters:
Taking a breather here and got to thinking about something that happened a few years ago that might be worth relating.
During the post-Y2K financial challenges I substitute taught in the public schools for a while.
Those situations often leave the sub in front of a bunch of kids without any obvious means of spending the time. The regular teach, say, didn’t know he was going to get into a car wreck or have a terrible hangover, so there was sometimes no agenda.
One week I found myself in front of several days of classes of high school seniors. Rather than let them use it for a study hall, I decided to get them talking about what they believe in. Try to get them into a mode of defining it and possibly thinking in ways they hadn’t done so before.
One of the days was spent talking about civilization. What it is. What are the characteristics of a civilization, as opposed to merely a complex society or culture with traditional, defined behavioral norms?
From the beginning, every classroom full of kids believed a society couldn’t call itself a civilization if it condoned slavery within it. They continued believing that (after some discussion) even after I pointed out the fact the US allowed slavery until a century and a half ago. Almost every group of humans we dub ‘civilized’ in history had slaves.
Watching those kids absorb, then adopt the realization that by their own definitions the US couldn’t possibly have been a civilization until the end of the Civil War was fascinating. But they were universally adamant about it, even after thinking about it. When I pointed out further that slavery existed almost all over the world in one form or another until fairly recently in history….REALLY recently they gradually decided most of their recent ancestors weren’t civilized..
Once they’d decided there couldn’t be civilization without civility defined as a respect for some degree of freedom of the individual, they hung tight on it. Those kids decided human beings weren’t civilized anywhere until ‘way after a lot of civilizations (by other definitions) had risen and fallen.
Those were smarter kids than I figured on them being. And perfectly willing to stick by their guns on something they believed in.
Over the course of a few days these kids decided they absolutely believed, following a lot of debate, that due process is the foundation of civilization. They believed wars without due process were criminal, that they were the antithesis of civilization because they failed to respect human life enough to follow their own prescriptions and procedures. They believed killing, mayhem are serious matters worthy of reflection, debate, and a profound respect for doing things thoughtfully and exactly according to law. They believed failure to do so is a symptom of a society withdrawing from the condition we call ‘civilization’.
Toward the end some of them must have ratted me out to their parents. I didn’t get many sub-teaching jobs after that.
Old Jules
So Far From Heaven 
Hey, you did a good thing for those kids in school. MADE them think for themselves!! Should have gotten a medal.
And tell us more about the picture you posted.
Hi Ben. Thanks for the read and the visit. I appreciate you.
There’s a long story behind that ‘grave’ in the pic. One of these days I’ll probably do a blog entry just telling it.
But the basic info is that it’s on the property of a good friend’s Y2K cabin about a mile from where mine was. It’s near the Continental Divide about 15 miles from Pie Town, New Mexico.
It’s just a pile of the kind of fossils and junk from past times a person finds lying around in that area. Nobody buried under there. The land belongs to the lady friend living near Kansas City who handles the administration of this blog [I’d never be able to do this because of my slow dialup connection – WordPress takes forever to load just for me to look at it].
Anyway, the ‘grave’ is just an example of kinds of things I’m prone to do when it comes into my head to do it. In this instance it was a message to some repeated intruders on her land.
I stopped believing civilization exists or has ever existed a very long time ago (for me). There are without doubt some civilized people but I don’t believe humans will last long enough to develop even one civilization.
Hi OF. Thanks for the read and visit. The response, too.
Civilization in the context you’re talking about and these youngsters were talking about probably has never existed. I’m not even certain due process has every gotten much of a toe-hold except as an ideal of something to do after I get this particular nuisance taken care of without resorting to it.
But humans are resilient critters, whatever else they might be. They’ll probably be around a while, and every community of them will continue to believe it’s [paraphrasing Carl Sandburg] the greatest people of the greatest nation and nothing like us ever was.
Thanks again.
I taught school for 389 years and found your words to be true.
Regarding Civilization: “Nation’s are born Stoic and die Epicurean.” Will Durant
Hi Cletis: Thanks for the visit and read. 389 years? Just curious why you din’t stay another year and make it an even 390 for the extra benefits you’d have most likely accrued.
Nice quote, Durant’s. Gracias
I am a little disappointed with most kids today. I have seen some out-standers, but it’s rare. My theory is too much television and rap music.
Hi Michael: I can’t say I’m disappointed with them but I do recognize and acknowledge they’re different than I was. I can’t understand anything they say most of the time. Lousy hearing, I thinks.
Thanks for the visit and comment.
later afternoon comment, I have eaten at the Middle of Nowhere Bar and Grill, more than once,as a matter of fact! 🙂
Hi Ben: I’d guess there are several scattered around the geography. The one on the sign’s about midway between Hatch and Deming, New Mexico at the intersection of the pavement that runs north to Hillsboro. When I used to drive by there frequently I always intended to mosey around the parking lot a while looking at the gravel just to test a theory’d been nagging at me. I suspect that gravel in the parking lot isn’t gravel, but teeth.
Thanks again for the visits.
I wish I’d had a teacher like you when I was in school. Can’t quite remember any of them encouraging me to think for myself instead of memorizing whatever truths fit between the pages of a textbook. ‘Course…maybe I just wasn’t paying attention…
Thanks for the visit up east Old Jules…your voice, your wisdom and your observations make me laugh. Sorry about the dial-up thing…but I’m honoured that you stuck around the whole 20 minutes waiting for the page to load. I hope you coffee’d up or fed the chickens while you were waiting.
Hi Deborah: Thanks for the visit and reads. I’m glad I stuck the whole 20 minutes, also. I don’t recall what I did while I was waiting, but it might have been one of those.
Gracias,
J